Kalen Jordan – Mage Open Source Community Alliance Debate

This episode was hosted by Kalen Jordan. The interview happened on the behest of Kalen to talk more about the Mage Open Source Community Alliance and the recent letter published.

The “Cone of Silence”

Transcript

00:02:36,173 –> 00:02:39,533kalen: See here’s the great thing about the car in the garage. is that?

5900:02:40,733 –> 00:02:46,573kalen: Um, you get what I got Wifi. I got great Wi fi. So that’s not an issue. I’ve got good

6000:02:46,733 –> 00:02:49,293kalen: connectivity. Great sound proroofing

6100:02:49,773 –> 00:02:51,533kalen: right, because when you have kids,

6200:02:49,840 –> 00:02:51,360brent_peterson: oh yeah. that’s that’s the key.

6300:02:52,653 –> 00:02:53,693kalen: that’s the key. It’s

6400:02:53,340 –> 00:02:54,3406500:02:53,853 –> 00:02:59,293kalen: all about soundproofing, so cars are probably, Uh. Your car is your probably single

6600:02:59,533 –> 00:03:04,333kalen: most sound proooofd object that you own, believe it or not, So

6700:03:05,120 –> 00:03:06,240brent_peterson: except for the Um. The

6800:03:05,993 –> 00:03:06,9936900:03:06,400 –> 00:03:09,760brent_peterson: Cone of silence from the original gets smart, and now you’re going to have

7000:03:09,760 –> 00:03:11,680brent_peterson: to google that because it’s quite hilarious.

7100:03:12,500 –> 00:03:13,500brent_peterson: Look up. the

7200:03:13,033 –> 00:03:14,0337300:03:13,360 –> 00:03:16,800brent_peterson: Cone of silence in the original gets smart from the nineteen sixties.

7400:03:16,813 –> 00:03:21,133kalen: You’re going to have an entire to do list of things to Google by the time you’re

7500:03:21,293 –> 00:03:23,213kalen: done with this podcast, Which is

7600:03:21,360 –> 00:03:23,040brent_peterson: Absolutely, it’s hilarious.

7700:03:24,973 –> 00:03:26,413kalen: it? Just as it should be

7800:03:25,200 –> 00:03:29,520brent_peterson: Um, for so for soundproofing, I’m building a little home studio in my

7900:03:29,600 –> 00:03:31,120brent_peterson: basement, Um, not like

8000:03:30,673 –> 00:03:31,6738100:03:31,440 –> 00:03:36,320brent_peterson: t. â–j gamble. I’m not going to gamble hundreds of thousands of dollars on my

8200:03:36,400 –> 00:03:37,920brent_peterson: sound studio. I’m probably

8300:03:37,553 –> 00:03:38,553kalen: First of all, No,

8400:03:39,060 –> 00:03:40,060brent_peterson: no, nobody.

8500:03:39,133 –> 00:03:42,893kalen: nobody does anything quite like T. â–j gamble, so that

8600:03:41,120 –> 00:03:43,760brent_peterson: Yeah, nobody can compete against that. I’m going to

8700:03:43,473 –> 00:03:44,4738800:03:43,920 –> 00:03:48,480brent_peterson: spend two percent of my budget. Uh, like that. as compared to his hundred

8900:03:48,720 –> 00:03:54,560brent_peterson: percent, he’s going to be the United States military infrastructure, and I’m

9000:03:54,540 –> 00:03:55,540brent_peterson: going to be like

9100:03:56,140 –> 00:03:57,1409200:03:57,820 –> 00:03:58,820brent_peterson: Um for

9300:03:58,273 –> 00:03:59,2739400:03:58,740 –> 00:03:59,740brent_peterson: for budgeting towards

9500:04:00,880 –> 00:04:04,720brent_peterson: my my studio. But this morning I was recording and I got everything all set

9600:04:04,880 –> 00:04:06,480brent_peterson: up very nicely, made the

9700:04:06,273 –> 00:04:07,2739800:04:06,480 –> 00:04:10,240brent_peterson: mistake of leaving the door upstairs open and we have a new Jack

9900:04:09,873 –> 00:04:10,87310000:04:10,400 –> 00:04:12,960brent_peterson: Russell. so the next thing I know is Susan’s

10100:04:13,033 –> 00:04:14,033kalen: That’ll do it.

10200:04:13,120 –> 00:04:17,120brent_peterson: running down the stairs. Turns the corner and all I hear is No,

10300:04:18,480 –> 00:04:22,880brent_peterson: And the this little puppies’s found the basement. and and we have carpeting

10400:04:23,040 –> 00:04:26,400brent_peterson: and has discovered that. Hey, this carpet is just like grass.

10500:04:27,680 –> 00:04:28,800brent_peterson: So if you listen

10600:04:28,833 –> 00:04:29,833kalen: just like grass.

10700:04:29,120 –> 00:04:34,560brent_peterson: to my, if you listen to my podcast today with Ysa Ritzma, there will be a

10800:04:34,720 –> 00:04:37,680brent_peterson: person yelling in the background that only comes in

10900:04:37,313 –> 00:04:38,31311000:04:37,840 –> 00:04:42,480brent_peterson: for a second, and I will give a Starbucks gift card if you can pick out that

11100:04:42,720 –> 00:04:44,160brent_peterson: exact time five dollar

11200:04:44,113 –> 00:04:45,113kalen: Ah. okay,

11300:04:44,320 –> 00:04:47,920brent_peterson: Gar, Starbucks gift card If you could pick out the. If you give me the time

11400:04:48,060 –> 00:04:49,060brent_peterson: signature on that

11500:04:50,513 –> 00:04:51,513kalen: very cool.

11600:04:51,500 –> 00:04:52,500brent_peterson: Yeah, big spender.

11700:04:51,613 –> 00:04:57,453kalen: Well, if the link is up, if the link is up, I will. I literally will stop our podcast

11800:04:57,613 –> 00:05:00,253kalen: right now and just go find that. because

11900:04:59,040 –> 00:05:03,360brent_peterson: Hey, th. I. I. I recorded that early this morning and I published it

12000:05:03,100 –> 00:05:04,10012100:05:03,453 –> 00:05:07,773kalen: Okay and it’s up. Okay be cause. I, I mean, honestly, I’d rather just get the gift

12200:05:08,093 –> 00:05:09,533kalen: certificate. I mean, you know,

12300:05:09,140 –> 00:05:10,14012400:05:09,693 –> 00:05:13,533kalen: as much as I enjoy chatting, I I could really use.

12500:05:11,760 –> 00:05:13,760brent_peterson: for for you, I would send it anyways,

12600:05:14,973 –> 00:05:21,293kalen: Okay. Well, I, I, I’m in. I’m go to hold you to that. Uh, cause I, you know, I really

12700:05:21,533 –> 00:05:26,493kalen: need the Co. These are tough times and I could use a gift card right about now for

12800:05:25,520 –> 00:05:29,840brent_peterson: as you sit in your Um, modelles Tesle models that you probably

12900:05:26,353 –> 00:05:27,353kalen: some coffee.

13000:05:29,553 –> 00:05:30,55313100:05:30,240 –> 00:05:33,680brent_peterson: got hand delivered from from Yn musk.

13200:05:34,573 –> 00:05:36,973kalen: well, we. You know, we do hang out from time to time.

13300:05:36,740 –> 00:05:37,74013400:05:38,333 –> 00:05:42,813kalen: He’s a good guy. Are you pro Elon Mosqu or anti Yon mosque? This is my new. Okay.

13500:05:40,880 –> 00:05:44,720brent_peterson: I’m pro. Do you not read? You know, do you not look at your social media

13600:05:44,733 –> 00:05:49,373kalen: I read. No, I. no, I read. I read. I mean, I. I read a lot of stuff. Um,

13700:05:44,960 –> 00:05:46,960brent_peterson: when you? okay, Yeah,

13800:05:50,653 –> 00:05:53,613kalen: I read the New York Times Covered to cover every morning.

13900:05:54,513 –> 00:05:55,51314000:05:55,180 –> 00:05:56,180brent_peterson: I don’t

14100:05:56,173 –> 00:05:58,493kalen: I, you know, No, I don’t.

14200:05:58,100 –> 00:05:59,10014300:05:58,653 –> 00:05:59,773kalen: either. I don’t. either.

14400:06:00,000 –> 00:06:03,520brent_peterson: sit there with your cigar. Your cigarette at the at the kitchen or the

14500:06:03,520 –> 00:06:07,120brent_peterson: kitchen table, drinking your coffee reading the New York Times.

14600:06:05,453 –> 00:06:10,573kalen: Yeah, a hundred percent, You sitting in my easy chair. That’s how it should be, you

14700:06:09,920 –> 00:06:14,240brent_peterson: Yep, in pajamas Before before eleven. When you have to get up when you have

14800:06:10,193 –> 00:06:11,19314900:06:14,320 –> 00:06:17,600brent_peterson: to actually go and think about doing your sabatical

15000:06:19,140 –> 00:06:20,140brent_peterson: and not working.

15100:06:19,613 –> 00:06:21,773kalen: Yeah, it’s tough. it’s tough.

15200:06:21,540 –> 00:06:22,54015300:06:22,573 –> 00:06:28,573kalen: Uh, So what? what? Uh? What did you talk to Yssie about today? Man, y, I saw his post

15400:06:29,053 –> 00:06:31,613kalen: on the open source situation. I,

15500:06:33,213 –> 00:06:36,653kalen: I, um. I agreed with a lot of it. I was happy that he said a lot of stuff he said.

15600:06:37,300 –> 00:06:38,30015700:06:37,933 –> 00:06:39,453kalen: But what did you guys rant about?

15800:06:38,080 –> 00:06:43,840brent_peterson: so I think W. we. We tried to dig into what is the issue here? Um, and it’s

15900:06:44,000 –> 00:06:47,920brent_peterson: really not. It’s not about forking or not forking right, and I didn’t make

16000:06:48,000 –> 00:06:52,320brent_peterson: the joke about Uh, my my neighbor, as I was growing up. Uh, I grew up in

16100:06:52,400 –> 00:06:57,520brent_peterson: Golden valley, Minnesota, and my neighbor had a uh, at a had like a thirty

16200:06:57,760 –> 00:07:03,120brent_peterson: two Cadillac, this giant car, and he got personalized license plates on the

16300:07:03,200 –> 00:07:05,040brent_peterson: car that said four â–q two.

16400:07:05,953 –> 00:07:06,95316500:07:06,800 –> 00:07:13,200brent_peterson: Um, and I’m sure it had nothing to do with Uh, forking a Github repository

16600:07:13,360 –> 00:07:16,240brent_peterson: or any sort of repository. Uh, because it was like

16700:07:16,073 –> 00:07:17,073kalen: You never know.

16800:07:16,400 –> 00:07:18,960brent_peterson: this is a. This is in the late seventies, anyways,

16900:07:19,373 –> 00:07:25,213kalen: I mean, maybe William is seventy four years old and he just is, is aged very well,

17000:07:23,920 –> 00:07:29,440brent_peterson: y. He, he carries it very well anyway, so I don’t think that this is a. The.

17100:07:29,600 –> 00:07:34,000brent_peterson: The issue here is not about forking or not forking. The issue is about

17200:07:34,320 –> 00:07:36,880brent_peterson: transparency and communication from Adobe.

17300:07:38,033 –> 00:07:39,03317400:07:38,560 –> 00:07:44,320brent_peterson: And the second issue then is about the Magento Association and how much can

17500:07:44,260 –> 00:07:45,260brent_peterson: they share?

17600:07:46,320 –> 00:07:50,160brent_peterson: How much control do they have? And what do people think they can do

17700:07:50,753 –> 00:07:51,75317800:07:52,973 –> 00:07:57,453kalen: Yeah, I think it’s all. Yeah, there is kind of. It’s all kind of bundled together and

17900:07:57,533 –> 00:08:03,213kalen: it’ weird. I feel like even talking right. You’re in a doobe partner, right, I

18000:08:03,373 –> 00:08:07,773kalen: assume, unless you’ve gotten pulled from the partner program for making tons of

18100:08:07,853 –> 00:08:11,133kalen: horrible dad jokes, which I assume could happen at any point.

18200:08:12,113 –> 00:08:13,11318300:08:12,620 –> 00:08:13,620brent_peterson: getting close?

18400:08:16,173 –> 00:08:20,493kalen: but like it, you know when people are in the partner program they can’t necessarily

18500:08:20,273 –> 00:08:21,27318600:08:21,473 –> 00:08:22,473kalen: you know,

18700:08:23,213 –> 00:08:28,813kalen: throw out whatever ideas or whatever thoughts they might have, so I’m always I’m

18800:08:28,893 –> 00:08:33,133kalen: always kind of tipt toing, like you know what I mean, like like, I feel like when I I

18900:08:33,213 –> 00:08:37,293kalen: watch the panel and it feels like people are tipt toing and tipt toing and tipt

19000:08:35,100 –> 00:08:36,100brent_peterson: Yeah, really

19100:08:37,453 –> 00:08:41,213kalen: toing, And it’s like you know, I don’t even want to ask you too many questions about

19200:08:41,373 –> 00:08:44,653kalen: it be cause I don’t. I don’t want to get anybody in trouble. Noody, wants to get in

19300:08:44,733 –> 00:08:49,533kalen: trouble. You know what I mean like, so, which I think is part of the issue. You know,

19400:08:49,613 –> 00:08:51,373kalen: I think is part of the challenge is that

19500:08:52,973 –> 00:08:54,813kalen: everybody’s just so you

19600:08:54,180 –> 00:08:55,18019700:08:54,893 –> 00:08:56,013kalen: know. Well, it’s

19800:08:54,960 –> 00:08:58,720brent_peterson: Yeah. but what is the issue here? I think the issue is pretty clear that and

19900:08:58,800 –> 00:08:59,840brent_peterson: they stated it right.

20000:09:01,440 –> 00:09:08,160brent_peterson: They, this so again. This makes for a lot of unknown variables. There is no

20100:09:08,320 –> 00:09:11,360brent_peterson: public road map from a gentle open source and this has

20200:09:11,153 –> 00:09:12,15320300:09:11,600 –> 00:09:12,640brent_peterson: left a lot of the community

20400:09:13,760 –> 00:09:18,320brent_peterson: who believe in the monolith who believe in the model is a valid approach to

20500:09:18,400 –> 00:09:21,840brent_peterson: many cases feeling uneasy about the future in Ma Geno,

20600:09:22,433 –> 00:09:23,43320700:09:23,420 –> 00:09:24,420brent_peterson: So I think

20800:09:24,033 –> 00:09:25,03320900:09:25,040 –> 00:09:28,880brent_peterson: it, and I don’t think it’s about forking or not forking. It’s not really

21000:09:29,200 –> 00:09:35,520brent_peterson: about about monolith or splitting up into micro services. It really is about

21100:09:36,240 –> 00:09:40,480brent_peterson: helping people understand where the open sources where the open source of

21200:09:40,420 –> 00:09:41,420brent_peterson: magenta is going.

21300:09:42,733 –> 00:09:47,053kalen: right, right and a, and I just feel like, Um,

21400:09:49,533 –> 00:09:54,013kalen: you know I, you know I’m I’m a little bit further from the details these days. As far

21500:09:54,173 –> 00:09:59,853kalen: as what exactly they’re introducing with the micros, and how that’s differing from

21600:10:00,093 –> 00:10:05,293kalen: the the traditional kind of moth. I bundle together lots of different things under

21700:10:05,533 –> 00:10:11,373kalen: this category of like community unrest, like the the, The people that have been

21800:10:11,693 –> 00:10:16,733kalen: complaining about con, contributing the people that have posted an issue to Gith hub

21900:10:16,973 –> 00:10:22,333kalen: and they get no response And then ninety days later the issue gets auto closed,

22000:10:22,653 –> 00:10:27,293kalen: right, Or you know, Uh, Jacob Winkler has posted a lot about stuff he’s contributed

22100:10:27,453 –> 00:10:31,453kalen: and it just gets. it. just sits there. I talked to Damie and Retzinger about that

22200:10:31,533 –> 00:10:37,773kalen: yesterday, Lukash, uh, uh. What’s his face? that? Um, uh, he’s going to get mad of me

22300:10:37,853 –> 00:10:43,053kalen: for that that had similar issues. It’s just like there’s all this stuff where there’s

22400:10:43,133 –> 00:10:47,053kalen: all this energy of the com. Like when I said something to me, said like there’s this

22500:10:47,133 –> 00:10:52,573kalen: energy and if it’s not sort of harnessed it gets frustrated And that’s what I see

22600:10:52,813 –> 00:10:56,733kalen: from. Like The Twenty thousand foot view is like there’s people waiting around on P.

22700:10:56,893 –> 00:11:02,893kalen: Rs. there’s people waiting around for architectural direction. There’s just all this

22800:11:03,133 –> 00:11:08,733kalen: and it’s just like Hey, let’s start a dialogue with a dooby. What does that even mean

22900:11:09,133 –> 00:11:14,413kalen: start a dialogue like I want. like I want to see people just do stuff you know, Like

23000:11:14,893 –> 00:11:19,293kalen: William came out with Hooa, and everybody loves it. He reinvented the front end.

23100:11:19,853 –> 00:11:25,053kalen: Everybody loves it right. it’s it’s he’s doing stuff. He’s actually making stuff

23200:11:25,293 –> 00:11:30,253kalen: happen independently. I feel like that’s kind of the spir. I’m on a rant here. I’m on

23300:11:30,333 –> 00:11:31,773kalen: a full on rent. Um,

23400:11:32,813 –> 00:11:37,293kalen: anyways, I feel like that’s kind of the spirit of Magento is that we just go out and

23500:11:37,373 –> 00:11:42,093kalen: we do stuff, whether that’s in the form of a a module that we create and contribute

23600:11:42,333 –> 00:11:48,573kalen: or whatever. we just do stuff. And we don’t sit around waiting for approval from

23700:11:48,733 –> 00:11:54,093kalen: anybody, and I feel like we’ve just been sitting around waiting for approvals. You

23800:11:54,173 –> 00:11:58,653kalen: know now, I, that’s just my. I could be completely wrong about that ’cause I’m not

23900:11:58,813 –> 00:12:01,213kalen: very on the ground connected all this stuff

24000:12:02,720 –> 00:12:06,640brent_peterson: Yeah, I think they’re I. you’re. You’re very correct in saying that people

24100:12:06,880 –> 00:12:08,560brent_peterson: are sitting around waiting for

24200:12:09,600 –> 00:12:13,200brent_peterson: fixes to get put in and I think that uh

24300:12:14,320 –> 00:12:19,680brent_peterson: that Adobe has definitely missed the boat in terms of making sure that from

24400:12:19,760 –> 00:12:23,680brent_peterson: the community side they’re keeping up with what’s happening on those on

24500:12:23,760 –> 00:12:26,480brent_peterson: those poll requests and and those fixes, because they are

24600:12:26,353 –> 00:12:27,353kalen: right, right,

24700:12:26,640 –> 00:12:32,240brent_peterson: missing out on a huge amount of potential bugs that are in the code already

24800:12:32,480 –> 00:12:34,240brent_peterson: and that are getting fixed And it’s a.

24900:12:34,033 –> 00:12:35,03325000:12:34,480 –> 00:12:38,240brent_peterson: It’s a Mi. You know thousands of coders that are out there helping that. Um.

25100:12:38,033 –> 00:12:39,03325200:12:39,440 –> 00:12:42,960brent_peterson: So that’s one issue. The other issue that you brought up is what is the road

25300:12:43,120 –> 00:12:47,200brent_peterson: map of Magento? Um. I think there’s sort of a road map for the commerce

25400:12:47,360 –> 00:12:51,200brent_peterson: version of it, but it’s not. It hasn’t been published since Say twenty

25500:12:51,520 –> 00:12:56,240brent_peterson: nineteen, Uh, Since the last time we had a live conference. Um, I don’t know

25600:12:56,400 –> 00:13:00,640brent_peterson: if they’ve actually put out at any like Meet Me Genento, India, or any like

25700:13:00,640 –> 00:13:04,720brent_peterson: this. Meet me Gentle Poland, Did anybody from a doobe show up for the

25800:13:04,720 –> 00:13:07,360brent_peterson: virtual part of it? I haven’t seen the whole conference yet,

25900:13:08,260 –> 00:13:09,260brent_peterson: but did

26000:13:08,653 –> 00:13:12,893kalen: yeah, I know, I just I just know they said that they had a travel restriction so as

26100:13:12,973 –> 00:13:16,333kalen: far as actually going, nobody actually went there in person.

26200:13:17,040 –> 00:13:21,680brent_peterson: yeah. So, um, you know that’s that be? I think, just helping us to

26300:13:21,700 –> 00:13:22,70026400:13:23,440 –> 00:13:28,240brent_peterson: where we’re going the last time I saw Anton Cririll, before he left Magento.

26500:13:28,880 –> 00:13:35,280brent_peterson: he gave a speech at Meet Magento Germany about Magenta moving to isolated

26600:13:35,220 –> 00:13:36,22026700:13:36,593 –> 00:13:37,59326800:13:37,360 –> 00:13:41,840brent_peterson: And I’m okay with that. And the reason is is you can still put those

26900:13:42,000 –> 00:13:47,760brent_peterson: isolated services together as a monoliphs, and and deploy it now. Yes and I

27000:13:48,000 –> 00:13:52,800brent_peterson: had the conversation this morning about. Does that mean? Uh, you’re going to

27100:13:52,880 –> 00:13:57,040brent_peterson: have to use something like G, P, r, S, or some. He. He had a technical term

27200:13:57,200 –> 00:14:01,120brent_peterson: that have already forgotten. Um. they’re They’re like a graphq, â–, type of

27300:14:01,200 –> 00:14:05,120brent_peterson: interface that’s internal that binds those services together And is that

27400:14:05,360 –> 00:14:08,560brent_peterson: going to be slower than not binding them together? I don’t know who. I don’t

27500:14:08,720 –> 00:14:13,600brent_peterson: care. because if it isn’t that, doobe’s probably going to fix it. So is it

27600:14:13,340 –> 00:14:14,340brent_peterson: is the

27700:14:13,553 –> 00:14:14,55327800:14:14,000 –> 00:14:17,840brent_peterson: monolither really an issue or not? I don’t know. I think what the issue is

27900:14:18,160 –> 00:14:23,920brent_peterson: is like what they’ve done with Uh, with search. they’ve deprecated uh, a Mi

28000:14:24,160 –> 00:14:29,360brent_peterson: sequel search in favor of elastic search. without giving the option of

28100:14:29,520 –> 00:14:33,680brent_peterson: having just a regular. Uh, my sequel search, and

28200:14:33,313 –> 00:14:34,31328300:14:33,920 –> 00:14:37,360brent_peterson: jeeze, I know that everybody loves my sequel search. They love the fact

28400:14:37,073 –> 00:14:38,07328500:14:37,520 –> 00:14:41,120brent_peterson: that as you search for anything, you bring everything up on the database.

28600:14:41,393 –> 00:14:42,39328700:14:42,580 –> 00:14:43,580brent_peterson: What could be better

28800:14:42,993 –> 00:14:43,99328900:14:43,680 –> 00:14:47,040brent_peterson: than if you had a thousand things? And no matter what you search for, you

29000:14:47,200 –> 00:14:49,840brent_peterson: always get a thousand results. See, I’m

29100:14:49,553 –> 00:14:50,55329200:14:50,000 –> 00:14:52,000brent_peterson: being sarcastic. Now you’re not even laughing,

29300:14:52,573 –> 00:14:56,013kalen: I. I didn’t even catch that because all I was thinking about was going into my next

29400:14:55,833 –> 00:14:56,83329500:14:57,840 –> 00:15:02,160brent_peterson: So what you’re saying is what I hear you saying. Now is you’re not actually

29600:15:02,400 –> 00:15:03,760brent_peterson: listening to me? You’re

29700:15:03,773 –> 00:15:05,213kalen: I. I let me,

29800:15:03,920 –> 00:15:05,920brent_peterson: just thinking about what you’re going to say next.

29900:15:06,653 –> 00:15:10,733kalen: you know I did make that mistake, but let me take a step back. Let me take a step

30000:15:10,893 –> 00:15:16,733kalen: back. And what you said was there is a thousand things in the database and every se

30100:15:16,973 –> 00:15:20,973kalen: â–query returns you without. So you’re saying My sequel is horrendous for research. Is

30200:15:20,953 –> 00:15:21,953kalen: what you trying to say?

30300:15:21,360 –> 00:15:25,360brent_peterson: It sucks. but at least it works at the some degree, and it gives somebody

30400:15:25,600 –> 00:15:28,320brent_peterson: that basic option if they want to. You know that the issue

30500:15:28,073 –> 00:15:29,073kalen: I? yeah,

30600:15:28,560 –> 00:15:32,800brent_peterson: is making it as little like you want to make sure that it’s is the. the. The

30700:15:32,960 –> 00:15:37,040brent_peterson: complication on the infrastructure side is low, so people are. Are it’s easy

30800:15:37,280 –> 00:15:38,800brent_peterson: entry? right? We don’t

30900:15:38,713 –> 00:15:39,713kalen: yes, yes,

31000:15:38,880 –> 00:15:42,240brent_peterson: want it to be super complicated that people don’t want to use it, Or it’s

31100:15:42,180 –> 00:15:43,180brent_peterson: something that’s

31200:15:42,593 –> 00:15:43,59331300:15:43,120 –> 00:15:45,520brent_peterson: only for big enterprise companies to use.

31400:15:46,413 –> 00:15:50,733kalen: right, I, And and and I heard that sort of said so many different ways by Will and

31500:15:50,813 –> 00:15:52,493kalen: others on the panel Is. it’s like

31600:15:53,773 –> 00:15:59,853kalen: keeping things simple. Um, you know so that people can get into it simply so that

31700:15:59,853 –> 00:16:04,893kalen: it’s not this this super overcomplicated thing to work with. Of course on the higher

31800:16:05,053 –> 00:16:09,213kalen: end, things are always going to get more complicated. Um, for different types of more

31900:16:09,373 –> 00:16:15,853kalen: complex projects, Um, but like, Yeah, like if you can just keep things simple and

32000:16:16,173 –> 00:16:21,853kalen: easy to use. Um, there’s so much power in that I can’t. you know. I can’t give a a

32100:16:22,893 –> 00:16:28,573kalen: technical argument for elastic search versus my asqeel. Um. I sort of you know I. I

32200:16:28,813 –> 00:16:32,973kalen: kind of follow the community. I see if people are upset and disgruntled. And then

32300:16:33,053 –> 00:16:35,293kalen: that’s what I kind of pay attention to these days.

32400:16:36,333 –> 00:16:42,253kalen: Um. but and again, I, I think Hoova is this huge precedent where I know it’s only a

32500:16:42,333 –> 00:16:50,093kalen: front end. I know it’s not all a Magento, but a significant chunk of Magento was re

32600:16:50,573 –> 00:16:57,213kalen: in, imagined in a very simple way, right, like less jobacript, less complexity and

32700:16:57,293 –> 00:17:02,893kalen: it’s been successful and people love working with it. Um. and it works in the real

32800:17:03,133 –> 00:17:07,853kalen: world. In production. This isn’t like somebody, the rantings of somebody that hasn’t

32900:17:08,013 –> 00:17:13,053kalen: actually done anything in the real world, So I feel like it’s taking that same

33000:17:14,253 –> 00:17:19,213kalen: Um approach. Like they were talking about how you can’t compete in Magento. with sass

33100:17:19,373 –> 00:17:23,373kalen: offerings. You can’t do anything for ten thousand dollars. You can’t do anything at

33200:17:23,453 –> 00:17:29,213kalen: all in these lower price ranges. Um. and they were saying, you know now with whoever

33300:17:29,453 –> 00:17:34,253kalen: they’re able to compete at some of these lower Um price targets in Europe and

33400:17:34,333 –> 00:17:40,013kalen: different markets, which for them is is a win. you know, and it just opens up. you

33500:17:40,013 –> 00:17:43,613kalen: know. The. that’s what our roots are in the Magental community. I mean, I’m preaching

33600:17:43,693 –> 00:17:48,813kalen: of the choir here literally. Because you, you, you sing in your choir, Um,

33700:17:49,633 –> 00:17:50,63333800:17:51,533 –> 00:17:53,533kalen: do you still sing in your choir? By the way?

33900:17:54,160 –> 00:17:59,040brent_peterson: Um. I am signed up to play piano at church in October. Yes,

34000:17:57,933 –> 00:17:59,693kalen: that’s right. that’s right.

34100:18:00,020 –> 00:18:01,020brent_peterson: first time of the year.

34200:18:02,033 –> 00:18:03,033kalen: Oh, nice.

34300:18:02,780 –> 00:18:03,78034400:18:03,213 –> 00:18:07,613kalen: nice. that’s cool. So, anyways, I don’t know, man, uh, it’s um,

34500:18:09,053 –> 00:18:13,293kalen: proof will be in the pudding. That’s another thing. the I said on the on the panel

34600:18:13,693 –> 00:18:16,413kalen: which I really enjoyed. It was very, very interesting.

34700:18:18,673 –> 00:18:19,67334800:18:19,200 –> 00:18:23,200brent_peterson: No, I think that, Uh that. I mean, I think that William Willm has started

34900:18:23,440 –> 00:18:27,520brent_peterson: something that that has been that has been lacking in our community. Um, if

35000:18:27,680 –> 00:18:32,400brent_peterson: we look back at what happened when Ebay bought Magento, it took about three

35100:18:32,420 –> 00:18:33,420brent_peterson: years for

35200:18:34,320 –> 00:18:40,880brent_peterson: for them to realize that there is a strong underpinning of public sentiment

35300:18:41,713 –> 00:18:42,71335400:18:42,560 –> 00:18:48,240brent_peterson: that that evolved around Magento and Um. There was a number of people that

35500:18:48,400 –> 00:18:53,360brent_peterson: got invited to the imagined conference, and uh, Um and Um, you know they.

35600:18:53,520 –> 00:18:57,920brent_peterson: re. They sort of reinvigorated the community and then I think the next year

35700:18:58,080 –> 00:19:00,320brent_peterson: they sold they sold it. Um,

35800:19:01,340 –> 00:19:02,340brent_peterson: so um?

35900:19:03,200 –> 00:19:06,800brent_peterson: when uh? you know, I think when Uh, Marco of Veltic took over, then there

36000:19:06,880 –> 00:19:11,440brent_peterson: was this recom commitment to the Mu to the community. I’m interested in

36100:19:11,600 –> 00:19:17,600brent_peterson: learning Uh, from people that that were involved in say, uh, a M, a patache

36200:19:17,760 –> 00:19:21,840brent_peterson: sling or one of the other open source platforms that they have. Uh, what

36300:19:22,080 –> 00:19:24,800brent_peterson: what that community looks like? And I know it’s a different

36400:19:24,433 –> 00:19:25,43336500:19:24,960 –> 00:19:30,000brent_peterson: type of community. I think a M’s on Java. Um, and it’s a little bit more

36600:19:30,080 –> 00:19:31,200brent_peterson: mature maybe than

36700:19:30,833 –> 00:19:31,83336800:19:31,360 –> 00:19:35,280brent_peterson: Magento, But it’d be interesting to see what what’s happened to those people

36900:19:36,080 –> 00:19:39,360brent_peterson: and do. does. Uh. does a doobe still listen to them?

37000:19:40,973 –> 00:19:46,573kalen: Yeah, that’s a good question. I think I want to say, Cordova, or Phone Gap, or one of

37100:19:46,653 –> 00:19:51,533kalen: those was also one of the bigger open source projects that had been acquired, and I

37200:19:51,613 –> 00:19:56,733kalen: was always curious about the same thing. You know how, how how have things gone with

37300:19:56,813 –> 00:19:59,293kalen: some of these other open source communities?

37400:19:59,873 –> 00:20:00,87337500:20:01,613 –> 00:20:06,973kalen: but I don’t know. I think. probably the fact that we don’t already know like they’re

37600:20:07,133 –> 00:20:11,293kalen: not there. There isn’t like a druple community out there. There isn’t a typo three

37700:20:11,153 –> 00:20:12,15337800:20:11,920 –> 00:20:13,280brent_peterson: Well, there is a Dple community.

37900:20:12,173 –> 00:20:16,493kalen: out there. There’s a no. no, No, No, but I’m saying Under Adobe

38000:20:16,720 –> 00:20:18,080brent_peterson: Oh, right. okay, got it.

38100:20:16,973 –> 00:20:22,733kalen: Like there there, you know there isn’t there. Aren’t one of these kind of bigger open

38200:20:23,053 –> 00:20:25,293kalen: source communities that you think of immediately,

38300:20:26,733 –> 00:20:31,213kalen: So yes, I mean, I, I don’t really know. And then, of course you know more and more

38400:20:31,373 –> 00:20:35,933kalen: people are leaving every day, right like Matt. A C was there for a while and he was

38500:20:36,093 –> 00:20:44,493kalen: rara open source. Then he was gone and bed bargs, of course is, uh, is uh now at uh,

38600:20:45,693 –> 00:20:47,453kalen: not sp, uh, shopware, right,

38700:20:47,620 –> 00:20:48,620brent_peterson: not at Spriker.

38800:20:48,573 –> 00:20:54,333kalen: um, I was going to say spriker, um, um, uh, Geto moved to Spriker, right,

38900:20:54,260 –> 00:20:55,26039000:20:54,833 –> 00:20:55,83339100:20:56,573 –> 00:21:02,653kalen: So you know, um, Yeah, there’s just this like, Uh, You know a lot of people like

39200:21:02,973 –> 00:21:09,453kalen: Anton’s at Word Press at W, P engine, right, Pyoter is at. Is it Uh, w P,

39300:21:09,600 –> 00:21:11,440brent_peterson: I thought he’ at Big commerce. Yeah,

39400:21:09,693 –> 00:21:13,213kalen: engine, big Haer, for Yeah, first it was W P, and then big

39500:21:13,140 –> 00:21:14,14039600:21:13,293 –> 00:21:14,413kalen: commerce. Right, So it’s like

39700:21:15,180 –> 00:21:16,180brent_peterson: Yeah, I think

39800:21:15,633 –> 00:21:16,633kalen: and then

39900:21:16,000 –> 00:21:19,120brent_peterson: that you know, and when they get so large that those people are going to

40000:21:19,120 –> 00:21:24,400brent_peterson: come and go, And that’s just that’s the reality of what it is. And uh, you

40100:21:24,480 –> 00:21:29,520brent_peterson: know. The. The. I think the the key point there is that the community can’t

40200:21:29,760 –> 00:21:36,560brent_peterson: be made up of any one person or group of people at Adobe Slash Magento, And

40300:21:36,720 –> 00:21:40,960brent_peterson: the community never was made up of core people at Magento. The community

40400:21:40,753 –> 00:21:41,75340500:21:41,360 –> 00:21:43,680brent_peterson: was made up of our community, and if you

40600:21:43,233 –> 00:21:44,23340700:21:43,760 –> 00:21:48,880brent_peterson: look all the way back to that first imagin conference, Um, it was. you know,

40800:21:48,960 –> 00:21:51,920brent_peterson: a whole bunch of people from all over the world that made up that community,

40900:21:52,593 –> 00:21:53,59341000:21:53,680 –> 00:21:56,080brent_peterson: Germans and French people, and a few Americans.

41100:21:56,673 –> 00:21:57,67341200:21:57,280 –> 00:22:02,400brent_peterson: Um. That kind of that that start started there. or at least we the some of

41300:22:02,480 –> 00:22:07,200brent_peterson: the core people in that community, then, Um. and that that’s just continue

41400:22:07,680 –> 00:22:09,840brent_peterson: to change and and grow and

41500:22:11,040 –> 00:22:12,800brent_peterson: ebb and flow. Um, and

41600:22:12,433 –> 00:22:13,43341700:22:12,960 –> 00:22:16,560brent_peterson: people come and go and and join and leave and are interested and not

41800:22:16,460 –> 00:22:17,46041900:22:18,160 –> 00:22:22,320brent_peterson: But I think that’s that’s the key part of it and that’s where I think that’s

42000:22:22,400 –> 00:22:29,600brent_peterson: where Willm and Vn and and the team at Um at Whofa have have tapped into.

42100:22:30,720 –> 00:22:33,840brent_peterson: and now this open letter now has spurred something

42200:22:34,880 –> 00:22:40,000brent_peterson: that is, is causing people to at least raise their eyebrows. Wake up, you

42300:22:39,620 –> 00:22:40,62042400:22:40,113 –> 00:22:41,113kalen: Mhm, Mhm, Mhm,

42500:22:41,520 –> 00:22:43,920brent_peterson: and and take some notice. and something iss happening.

42600:22:45,613 –> 00:22:50,173kalen: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I’m even feeling re energized, you know, and and I, you know,

42700:22:50,493 –> 00:22:54,653kalen: I’ve got other stuff I’m starting to focus on. I always feel guilty that I, I don’t

42800:22:55,293 –> 00:23:01,453kalen: do. you know, Uh, do more for the association and different things like that. And um,

42900:23:02,253 –> 00:23:07,213kalen: you know I, I, I’ve drift. My interests have drifted, you know, as like a lot of

43000:23:07,293 –> 00:23:13,693kalen: people do. Um, but yeah, this whole thing has kind of got me all excited and

43100:23:13,853 –> 00:23:15,053kalen: bothered, you know,

43200:23:16,093 –> 00:23:21,453kalen: and got me you know, thinking about things and kind of thinking back to like. What is

43300:23:21,613 –> 00:23:27,213kalen: that original Magento community spirit that’s somehow being expressed? Um. here,

43400:23:28,333 –> 00:23:30,813kalen: Um, you know, a little bit of a rebellious

43500:23:32,253 –> 00:23:36,493kalen: spirit. It, or at least it kind of an independent. You know, there’s a real

43600:23:36,573 –> 00:23:40,493kalen: independent streak in the Magento community you know, and I think.

43700:23:39,680 –> 00:23:44,400brent_peterson: Yeah, and I think, Uh, you know Yov and and and Roy and Bob were all

43800:23:45,520 –> 00:23:50,000brent_peterson: very independent minded people who promoted that culture in our community.

43900:23:50,380 –> 00:23:51,380brent_peterson: And really

44000:23:51,033 –> 00:23:52,03344100:23:51,680 –> 00:23:56,240brent_peterson: the the key was that they promoted innovation that happened in it. And I

44200:23:56,320 –> 00:24:00,400brent_peterson: think the one thing that we are, we are sorely missing in Gentle

44300:24:00,640 –> 00:24:06,000brent_peterson: specifically is that drive from leadership and else, just say, leadership is

44400:24:06,000 –> 00:24:10,080brent_peterson: at the Adobe level here that drive to innovate and have the community

44500:24:10,560 –> 00:24:14,880brent_peterson: innovate, and the frustrations that you mentioned earlier around, maybe and

44600:24:15,120 –> 00:24:16,720brent_peterson: around, not getting pull requests done,

44700:24:17,300 –> 00:24:18,30044800:24:19,040 –> 00:24:24,880brent_peterson: If you can’t get a poll request done and looked at for a error, how what is

44900:24:24,960 –> 00:24:28,720brent_peterson: your chances of getting a poll request for something that is contributing

45000:24:28,960 –> 00:24:33,200brent_peterson: that is actually innovative to Magento rather than just fixing something?

45100:24:33,793 –> 00:24:34,793kalen: right. right.

45200:24:36,173 –> 00:24:40,333kalen: Yeah, totally. And and I don’t know, I don’t know what the realities are on the

45300:24:40,333 –> 00:24:44,493kalen: ground. I’m sure that they’ve got a a tough work load Is probably hard to manage all

45400:24:44,653 –> 00:24:49,053kalen: these issues and things that are coming in. There’s probably a lot of noise coming

45500:24:48,753 –> 00:24:49,75345600:24:50,653 –> 00:24:56,893kalen: so it’s probably a hard tricky thing to solve. But I don’t know. I just feel like if

45700:24:57,053 –> 00:25:03,213kalen: the community sort of just did their own fork, I kind of just feel like it would. It

45800:25:03,293 –> 00:25:07,773kalen: would just I want to believe that it would work better. And and maybe that’s naive?

45900:25:08,013 –> 00:25:13,053kalen: you know, maybe at this scale that’s completely naive. I don’t know. but I, I’m like,

46000:25:13,773 –> 00:25:18,973kalen: let’s do it. Let’s you know, let’s let’s see what this thing would be. You know.

46100:25:20,000 –> 00:25:24,880brent_peterson: Yeah, I’m not. I’m not uh. convinced on forking yet, Um. I, um. I, I would

46200:25:25,120 –> 00:25:29,040brent_peterson: like to have. I would like to have Adobe energized a little bit more

46300:25:29,280 –> 00:25:35,440brent_peterson: internally to kind of see some value in what the community can do, Um, and I

46400:25:35,520 –> 00:25:38,320brent_peterson: know that there’s an answer for whatever is out there,

46500:25:39,360 –> 00:25:43,440brent_peterson: Um to fix. And I think you know the reality too. Is that? what? what? I

46600:25:43,520 –> 00:25:48,720brent_peterson: don’t remember? What year they started publishing Um. G, the code on Github.

46700:25:49,600 –> 00:25:53,840brent_peterson: It wasn’t that long ago that we couldn’t even contribute to bug fixes. That

46800:25:53,920 –> 00:25:56,160brent_peterson: you had to email somebody and email your patch.

46900:25:55,753 –> 00:25:56,75347000:25:56,400 –> 00:25:57,840brent_peterson: and hopefully it got looked at.

47100:25:58,353 –> 00:25:59,35347200:25:58,880 –> 00:26:03,440brent_peterson: You know that that we where it’s been it’s It’s relatively new that we could

47300:26:03,600 –> 00:26:09,360brent_peterson: actually co. We could, we could do a Poquest and we could uh offer that as a

47400:26:09,020 –> 00:26:10,02047500:26:10,713 –> 00:26:11,71347600:26:11,520 –> 00:26:15,840brent_peterson: I think that they just need to make pay some attention to it, and you know

47700:26:16,160 –> 00:26:19,840brent_peterson: just really what it comes back down to, though is just communication and

47800:26:20,000 –> 00:26:23,120brent_peterson: transparency. If they were to come out and say hey, we don’t have enough

47900:26:23,280 –> 00:26:26,400brent_peterson: people to do this. We don’t have enough people to actually look at all these

48000:26:26,560 –> 00:26:27,680brent_peterson: bugs that you’re putting in.

48100:26:28,573 –> 00:26:33,933kalen: right, right. like people have asked. like, okay, Wh, What exactly these associations

48200:26:34,093 –> 00:26:38,973kalen: roll with open source? Is the association doing events only? are they going to be

48300:26:39,293 –> 00:26:43,853kalen: somehow, you know, in charge of open source. And then, like I think, it was said in

48400:26:43,933 –> 00:26:48,253kalen: the panel yesterday that like a dialogue was started with a doobe on the topic,

48500:26:48,653 –> 00:26:52,973kalen: right, What exactly does that mean that a dialogue was started like you’re saying

48600:26:53,213 –> 00:26:58,973kalen: Transparency. like. Okay, Who’s the person that is in charge of this when? like?

48700:26:59,453 –> 00:27:05,213kalen: like? When was the issue raised? How much time has passed? When when are we going to

48800:27:05,293 –> 00:27:09,933kalen: get an answer? You know, so I guess you’re I think you’re right From that perspective

48900:27:10,093 –> 00:27:16,333kalen: Is Is is like. If we could get transparency, Um, that would, that would be great and

49000:27:16,413 –> 00:27:21,773kalen: I don’t. I don’t think anybody there is like a bad guy like. I just think I don’t

49100:27:21,853 –> 00:27:25,613kalen: know. They probably have their own internal meetings and internal policies and

49200:27:25,773 –> 00:27:31,133kalen: they’re just doing their job. You know, But something is amiss

49300:27:32,973 –> 00:27:40,333kalen: so as something’s not aligned, so like, how can we? I don’t know how. I don’t know.

49400:27:40,273 –> 00:27:41,273kalen: you know.

49500:27:40,880 –> 00:27:45,840brent_peterson: Yeah, you’ going to love my next analogy. Um, so if we were to look at the

49600:27:45,840 –> 00:27:51,040brent_peterson: Magento Association as being sort of this socialistic type, En

49700:27:52,640 –> 00:27:56,960brent_peterson: has to do everything as a collective and it doesn’t want to upset the

49800:27:57,040 –> 00:27:58,400brent_peterson: masses, so

49900:27:58,113 –> 00:27:59,11350000:27:58,640 –> 00:28:02,080brent_peterson: everything is very, very vanilla and and even

50100:28:01,633 –> 00:28:02,633kalen: yes, yes,

50200:28:02,480 –> 00:28:09,360brent_peterson: keel. And if if you were to stand, there’s no room for dissenters or people

50300:28:09,680 –> 00:28:14,400brent_peterson: to ra to stand up and say Hey, We got to move faster. There’s no room for

50400:28:14,560 –> 00:28:19,120brent_peterson: anything to happen quickly because it has to go through so many processes

50500:28:19,280 –> 00:28:22,400brent_peterson: and it has to go through â–x, y and â–z. And there’s

50600:28:22,193 –> 00:28:23,193kalen: exactly exactly,

50700:28:22,880 –> 00:28:26,400brent_peterson: that that’s just not going to happen. So you know, I don’t know if that’s

50800:28:26,560 –> 00:28:30,320brent_peterson: goingnna get any better, and I don’t know why it would be any better in the

50900:28:30,400 –> 00:28:34,000brent_peterson: in A. in this Mag, major open source community alliance.

51000:28:35,040 –> 00:28:39,200brent_peterson: They were able to make that letter happen quickly because they only involved

51100:28:39,360 –> 00:28:43,760brent_peterson: the people that were there right. So, if we were to say and I, you know,

51200:28:43,840 –> 00:28:46,880brent_peterson: like I didn’t know. Apparently that letter was floating around for a week.

51300:28:48,080 –> 00:28:54,000brent_peterson: Um, so it was it was seen by a few people, which I can understand. But if

51400:28:54,160 –> 00:28:58,080brent_peterson: you were now to say okay, I want to have everybody see it. Okay. Well now

51500:28:58,240 –> 00:28:59,840brent_peterson: everybody’s going to have a different opinion,

51600:29:00,193 –> 00:29:01,19351700:29:00,880 –> 00:29:05,440brent_peterson: And and uh, suddenly you get mired down in in, Um,

51800:29:06,480 –> 00:29:10,000brent_peterson: in a whole bunch of you know what, not so good

51900:29:09,533 –> 00:29:10,813kalen: a whole bunch of moarchy.

52000:29:11,120 –> 00:29:13,920brent_peterson: molchy. That’s a great word. Thank you for that, Um,

52100:29:15,440 –> 00:29:20,640brent_peterson: and that moarchy. Then just keeps us, keeps our feet stuck and we can’t move

52200:29:20,880 –> 00:29:24,160brent_peterson: because we’re waiting to get out of this moarchy, where

52300:29:24,113 –> 00:29:25,113kalen: Yeah, yeah, I mean

52400:29:24,480 –> 00:29:28,000brent_peterson: if if you’ more, if you’re smaller and more agile, you can make those

52500:29:28,240 –> 00:29:30,880brent_peterson: decisions quickly and go forward. It’s kinda like

52600:29:30,633 –> 00:29:31,63352700:29:31,360 –> 00:29:36,160brent_peterson: it’s kinda like you know as a leader you need to make those decision. You

52800:29:36,240 –> 00:29:40,400brent_peterson: have to do it sometimes unilaterally, Uh, because you need to make ‘

52900:29:40,220 –> 00:29:41,22053000:29:42,000 –> 00:29:47,040brent_peterson: and as you know as somebody that is an entrepreneur, then that is part of

53100:29:47,200 –> 00:29:50,320brent_peterson: the culture. But if you’re looking at something where it’s a bigger

53200:29:50,560 –> 00:29:54,720brent_peterson: organization like Adobe or like Smith Buckland, and you have to follow a

53300:29:54,800 –> 00:29:59,600brent_peterson: whole set of rules, and uh, you have to go through every single step and

53400:29:59,680 –> 00:30:01,920brent_peterson: whoop, and there is no room

53500:30:03,200 –> 00:30:05,520brent_peterson: for for pushing the envelope, Because

53600:30:06,340 –> 00:30:07,34053700:30:06,433 –> 00:30:07,43353800:30:07,040 –> 00:30:10,320brent_peterson: will we do? Well, I guess you know what we really need here is Elon Musk,

53900:30:12,173 –> 00:30:13,773kalen: that’s what it comes back to.

54000:30:12,960 –> 00:30:16,160brent_peterson: He would say he would save Ma Gentta, open source.

54100:30:16,973 –> 00:30:25,293kalen: I mean, I think Willm is the Elon musk. You know, Um, which um, you know. I think you

54200:30:25,193 –> 00:30:26,193kalen: know that you need

54300:30:27,133 –> 00:30:31,453kalen: Um. I, I’m a big believer in what individuals can do right like you, you do through

54400:30:31,613 –> 00:30:37,133kalen: out the analogy of of Um, socialism, or kind of collectivism, which is kind of

54500:30:37,373 –> 00:30:39,053kalen: contrasted against kind of

54600:30:40,093 –> 00:30:44,333kalen: individual. What? what an individual or a small group of individuals can do right? I

54700:30:44,413 –> 00:30:49,133kalen: mean, I think of Laravelle, started by Taus, one guy, Taylor Otwell, you know, And

54800:30:49,053 –> 00:30:55,053kalen: and it’s it’s this huge ecosystem that’s grown, but he’s continued as the kind of B D

54900:30:55,133 –> 00:31:00,893kalen: F. â–l, You know the sort of benev benevolent dictator for life. And and it’s it’s

55000:31:01,133 –> 00:31:03,853kalen: it’s doing great. right’s thriving. Um,

55100:31:05,293 –> 00:31:07,373kalen: whereas Magento is kind of Um,

55200:31:08,413 –> 00:31:10,253kalen: stagnated in in some ways,

55300:31:11,693 –> 00:31:16,653kalen: and anyway, I, you know, I just think that and I and I know he probably hates it

55400:31:16,733 –> 00:31:22,093kalen: every time I. I sort of make a big deal out of him individually. Um, because he’s

55500:31:22,253 –> 00:31:27,293kalen: trying to build a uh team and kind of, I think catalyze kind of a broader movement

55600:31:27,613 –> 00:31:29,453kalen: you know, but um,

55700:31:30,493 –> 00:31:35,293kalen: yeah, man, I mean, you know I, I think one person can can build something you know.

55800:31:35,533 –> 00:31:39,773kalen: Incredible. It’s like it’s like the mythical Man month. you know, I’m sure Doobe’s

55900:31:39,853 –> 00:31:45,373kalen: throwing tons of resources at various things. I’m sure if you looked at their burn

56000:31:45,613 –> 00:31:51,293kalen: charts and their budgets, they would be significant. But that doesn’t always mean

56100:31:51,533 –> 00:31:56,813kalen: that you know things are getting done And and I know that people on the association

56200:31:56,973 –> 00:32:03,133kalen: have put in a ton of effort a ton of time, a ton of blood tears. I just you know,

56300:32:03,533 –> 00:32:09,053kalen: that doesn’t always guarantee like results right. Sometimes one person or a small

56400:32:09,293 –> 00:32:15,773kalen: group of people can get stuff done super fast, right on on a on a shoes string

56500:32:15,673 –> 00:32:16,67356600:32:18,733 –> 00:32:23,613kalen: whereas the bigger incumbent right can spend a lot of money. Really a lot of time and

56700:32:23,853 –> 00:32:26,733kalen: not really go as fast. You

56800:32:27,680 –> 00:32:30,720brent_peterson: Yeah, no, I think you, you hit it there and there’ two sides of that whole

56900:32:30,960 –> 00:32:36,160brent_peterson: thing about about collective collectivism. There is a broad community that

57000:32:36,320 –> 00:32:41,920brent_peterson: can support a A. a. a, Um, a dream of somebody. and that that broad

57100:32:42,160 –> 00:32:46,160brent_peterson: community it kind come together in the terms of Magento and fix a whole

57200:32:46,240 –> 00:32:51,360brent_peterson: bunch of bugs. Right, uh, but if that, but what that broad community can’t

57300:32:51,520 –> 00:32:52,800brent_peterson: do as a community

57400:32:53,700 –> 00:32:54,70057500:32:55,360 –> 00:33:00,560brent_peterson: C is is always agree on what is the next best thing that we. What is the

57600:33:00,640 –> 00:33:06,400brent_peterson: next big thing that we should do for our community to move us forward. Um,

57700:33:06,640 –> 00:33:09,040brent_peterson: because you are always going to have somebody that is more

57800:33:10,400 –> 00:33:14,400brent_peterson: all, used a word conservative and liberal. Uh, not in the political sense,

57900:33:14,640 –> 00:33:17,520brent_peterson: but just if you think about it, the people would like. Some people in our

58000:33:17,600 –> 00:33:20,560brent_peterson: community would like it to stay the way it has been, and some people would

58100:33:20,720 –> 00:33:23,680brent_peterson: like to grow into new things. And there’s new people coming to the community

58200:33:24,080 –> 00:33:27,680brent_peterson: that know. Don’t care about what happened in Magenta One. they, they’re

58300:33:27,760 –> 00:33:30,560brent_peterson: they’re in. They’re involved in a genento, too. Uh,

58400:33:30,273 –> 00:33:31,273kalen: right, right,

58500:33:30,720 –> 00:33:34,080brent_peterson: and they would like to see that. So there’s all kinds of opposing views that

58600:33:34,160 –> 00:33:38,880brent_peterson: are happening. So the two sides are are the broad community, Help support it

58700:33:39,200 –> 00:33:44,080brent_peterson: and maintain it, and and make sure that we’re we’re growing. In a flat

58800:33:44,400 –> 00:33:47,520brent_peterson: sense. You know we’re growing. but it’s it’s really just maintaining

58900:33:47,760 –> 00:33:51,840brent_peterson: something. Then there’s the little people that are poking things at it that

59000:33:51,920 –> 00:33:54,720brent_peterson: are lighting fighters here and there, like the Hofa theme,

59100:33:55,153 –> 00:33:56,15359200:33:55,680 –> 00:33:59,600brent_peterson: And those people are the ones that are sticking out that are making things

59300:33:59,300 –> 00:34:00,30059400:34:01,213 –> 00:34:02,253kalen: right, y

59500:34:02,640 –> 00:34:09,600brent_peterson: So you know, in terms of I, in terms of the uh, uh, Moska Moscow, Moska, M,

59600:34:09,840 –> 00:34:12,400brent_peterson: o, s, C, A. In terms of Mosa

59700:34:11,853 –> 00:34:13,773kalen: Magento, open source.

59800:34:16,900 –> 00:34:17,90059900:34:17,693 –> 00:34:20,653kalen: what is it Alliance Alliance? That’s it.

60000:34:19,440 –> 00:34:23,760brent_peterson: right, so you know? what does that mean? Okay? are they all going to? Uh? if

60100:34:23,920 –> 00:34:26,800brent_peterson: what if what if there is a bunch of people that would like to go with

60200:34:26,960 –> 00:34:28,160brent_peterson: isolated services

60300:34:29,200 –> 00:34:34,640brent_peterson: instead of micro services, And I would like my catalogu to be able to be

60400:34:34,720 –> 00:34:39,600brent_peterson: deployed differently than my my customer group, or whatever that is, Uh, or

60500:34:39,760 –> 00:34:44,160brent_peterson: my search, or or, however you want to deploy things, because it’ll make me

60600:34:44,320 –> 00:34:48,800brent_peterson: make. It’ll make my solution a little easier because I don’t change anything

60700:34:49,200 –> 00:34:54,160brent_peterson: but my catalog, and and I need to scale my catalogu, so I only want to scale

60800:34:54,400 –> 00:34:56,480brent_peterson: that part of it or whatever that pie is.

60900:34:56,593 –> 00:34:57,593kalen: Mhm, Mhm, Mhm,

61000:34:57,200 –> 00:35:00,720brent_peterson: Maybe there’s some people that want that and I, you know, I think that the

61100:35:00,880 –> 00:35:03,680brent_peterson: idea that that between p w a and hufah,

61200:35:04,720 –> 00:35:11,120brent_peterson: uh, a bolted on theme versus a a p w A’s theme. Um, you know that’s just the

61300:35:11,200 –> 00:35:13,200brent_peterson: beginning of making it more complicated

61400:35:14,240 –> 00:35:20,160brent_peterson: and does, does it? Um. Does it make it so much more complicated that people

61500:35:20,180 –> 00:35:21,180brent_peterson: aren’t going to use it?

61600:35:22,973 –> 00:35:25,613kalen: Yeah, I mean, that’s kind of the million dollar question like

61700:35:27,773 –> 00:35:32,253kalen: I don’t know, you know, I mean I. I. I did some stuff with like Laraville, which uh

61800:35:32,413 –> 00:35:37,133kalen: bundles all sorts of uh, modern jaasript stuff that I wasn’t familiar with Web,

61900:35:38,413 –> 00:35:43,133kalen: all sorts of stuff that I just was not at all familiar with and it mostly just worked

62000:35:43,533 –> 00:35:47,373kalen: right out of the box because they had it configured and packaged in a way that it was

62100:35:47,453 –> 00:35:53,933kalen: easy to get up and running and kind of on boarded me into this tool set. And um, my

62200:35:54,093 –> 00:35:58,573kalen: sense is that it’s sort of the exact opposite case with a lot of Theo stuff where

62300:35:58,733 –> 00:36:02,973kalen: it’s you. Things just take a long time to get to get going,

62400:36:04,093 –> 00:36:08,253kalen: and the complexity is slowing every you know everybody down.

62500:36:09,233 –> 00:36:10,23362600:36:11,293 –> 00:36:14,413kalen: I. I. I don’t know. I mean you, you would know better than I would you know what the

62700:36:14,493 –> 00:36:19,853kalen: pros and cons are to the isolated services. Um it it. It just seems like there’s this

62800:36:20,013 –> 00:36:25,693kalen: contingent that is saying. Let’s keep it simple. Um, Which makes sense to me. keep it

62900:36:25,773 –> 00:36:30,973kalen: simple. Stupid, Um, and I, I don’t know. It seems like the Enterprise Commerce

63000:36:31,133 –> 00:36:34,093kalen: edition. Whatever the heck is being called These days. They still call it Enterprise.

63100:36:34,813 –> 00:36:37,853kalen: Um, Is kind of Adobe Commerce.

63200:36:38,893 –> 00:36:43,293kalen: Enterprise Edition Is is. Can it be like a different thing? It just feels like it’s

63300:36:43,373 –> 00:36:45,853kalen: going to be an entirely different thing from

63400:36:46,433 –> 00:36:47,43363500:36:48,013 –> 00:36:53,133kalen: Magento is Now. I mean, why not just have it become an entirely different thing

63600:36:53,293 –> 00:36:58,013kalen: written in Jaa Micro serviceerists. I, I mean, I’m hearing that it’s going to be

63700:36:58,093 –> 00:37:01,053kalen: getting rewritten a Java or something like that. I don’t know where I heard that

63800:37:01,133 –> 00:37:02,333kalen: from, but um,

63900:37:02,400 –> 00:37:04,240brent_peterson: Well, you’re in Austin. So you should know?

64000:37:04,893 –> 00:37:08,093kalen: I should know these things. you know, I hear things I hear a little.

64100:37:07,440 –> 00:37:10,480brent_peterson: what Do you? You should be hanging out at the coffee shops? Although a Doobe

64200:37:10,800 –> 00:37:14,080brent_peterson: employees hang out and you should be overly overhearing their conversations.

64300:37:14,813 –> 00:37:18,013kalen: Well, maybe that’s what I do. Maybe that’s where this is coming from.

64400:37:18,060 –> 00:37:19,060brent_peterson: Okay, good.

64500:37:18,253 –> 00:37:23,693kalen: You know, you never you. You never know. you never know. but um, you know, maybe they

64600:37:23,853 –> 00:37:28,573kalen: should just be completely different things. I mean, just let let the open source

64700:37:28,893 –> 00:37:35,933kalen: Magento crazies let us do our thing with our little S and B market, and and let the

64800:37:36,093 –> 00:37:39,853kalen: up market. Uh, you know Doobe commerce guys go nuts.

64900:37:40,973 –> 00:37:47,693kalen: you know, go absolutely nuts with your architecture. Rewrite it in Java. rewrite it

65000:37:47,773 –> 00:37:52,013kalen: in in. go. laying. whatever you want to do. You know what I’m saying?

65100:37:53,073 –> 00:37:54,073kalen: Maybe that’s the answer

65200:37:54,080 –> 00:38:00,160brent_peterson: I think the key here is still the underlying issue. That is still. there is

65300:38:00,320 –> 00:38:03,520brent_peterson: just a lack of transparency and communication from Adobe.

65400:38:04,633 –> 00:38:05,633kalen: right, Yeah,

65500:38:05,120 –> 00:38:08,320brent_peterson: That’s all. I mean that what youve just said would solve everybody’s

65600:38:08,400 –> 00:38:11,840brent_peterson: problem, because if they did that, then sure be that people would fork it,

65700:38:12,000 –> 00:38:17,040brent_peterson: and we’d be off to the races with to open Source and the Ma,

65800:38:18,080 –> 00:38:21,280brent_peterson: or a Doobe commerce. then would its own little beast

65900:38:22,320 –> 00:38:25,520brent_peterson: that would live on on on through the Adobe world.

66000:38:26,033 –> 00:38:27,03366100:38:26,960 –> 00:38:31,520brent_peterson: I don’t know if Adobe would want to do that because I think they’ also left.

66200:38:32,400 –> 00:38:37,040brent_peterson: Uh, you know a patchy sling there, which is the undering experience manager

66300:38:36,900 –> 00:38:37,90066400:38:37,393 –> 00:38:38,39366500:38:39,853 –> 00:38:44,573kalen: you know I. I. I actually had a conversation with Dame and Retsgrey yesterday. Um, I

66600:38:44,573 –> 00:38:50,013kalen: don’t know if you know him, but he’s a. He’s a. He’s a cool guy and uh, he, um, it’s

66700:38:50,093 –> 00:38:55,213kalen: not live yet, but um, he was saying something really interesting, which is that a uh.

66800:38:55,293 –> 00:39:01,133kalen: Magento is kind of like open source, but not exactly in the sense that a lot of these

66900:39:01,293 –> 00:39:04,973kalen: architectural decisions right, like I heard from. I think one or two different

67000:39:05,213 –> 00:39:09,373kalen: people. The thing about Java. Okay, not going to say who, Because again, that’s kind

67100:39:09,453 –> 00:39:13,693kalen: of the nature of this beast is that it’s like you know a guy and you have a

67200:39:13,773 –> 00:39:17,773kalen: conversation with some person. But it’s off the record because they’re not supposed

67300:39:17,853 –> 00:39:23,293kalen: to be what right. And this is sort of exactly how open source is not supposed to

67400:39:23,373 –> 00:39:27,773kalen: work. Everything should be discussed out in the open. It should all be discussed on

67500:39:27,853 –> 00:39:32,573kalen: Github. Whoever was talking about rewriting it in Java, if in K. If they were in

67600:39:32,733 –> 00:39:38,333kalen: fact, that should just be discussed openly right look, but there’s all these backroom

67700:39:38,653 –> 00:39:43,693kalen: conversations right. there’s the partner ecosystem. There’s always these backroom

67800:39:43,933 –> 00:39:48,493kalen: conversations and part of that is, Uh, you know, there’s a closer relationship

67900:39:48,813 –> 00:39:52,333kalen: between partners and that’s that can be a good thing. That can be a feature, not a

68000:39:52,413 –> 00:39:57,373kalen: bug. but it’s it’s also just kind of. you know. it’s kind of wacky. The whole thing.

68100:39:57,953 –> 00:39:58,95368200:39:59,700 –> 00:40:00,70068300:40:00,353 –> 00:40:01,353kalen: you know, it’s kind of

68400:40:00,400 –> 00:40:02,640brent_peterson: that’s back to somebody’s got to make a decision.

68500:40:03,713 –> 00:40:04,71368600:40:04,720 –> 00:40:08,880brent_peterson: At some point, the decisions the the moving forward decisions have to be

68700:40:08,960 –> 00:40:13,840brent_peterson: made, and they shouldn’t involve every single person in the whole world. You

68800:40:13,380 –> 00:40:14,38068900:40:14,173 –> 00:40:15,373kalen: Well, okay, I mean

69000:40:14,400 –> 00:40:17,120brent_peterson: there, there’s going to have to be a group of leaders that that do that, and

69100:40:17,200 –> 00:40:20,320brent_peterson: they’re going to have to make that decision and then live with the live with

69200:40:20,100 –> 00:40:21,100brent_peterson: that decision.

69300:40:23,193 –> 00:40:24,193kalen: you could be R. I

69400:40:24,253 –> 00:40:28,333kalen: mean, yeah, I mean, you know that’s where leadership is. That’s where leadership is

69500:40:24,320 –> 00:40:25,520brent_peterson: That’s what leadership is.

69600:40:28,493 –> 00:40:32,973kalen: and in business, that’s that’s how sort of business works. Um, you know, you’ve been

69700:40:33,053 –> 00:40:36,893kalen: a business owner for many years and you’ve had to make those types of decisions and

69800:40:36,953 –> 00:40:37,953kalen: stuff. Um,

69900:40:38,913 –> 00:40:39,913kalen: I think

70000:40:40,813 –> 00:40:45,693kalen: you know. And And, and certainly, if you just ask for everyone’s opinion and do what

70100:40:45,773 –> 00:40:47,613kalen: everybody wants you to do, I think that’s the wrong

70200:40:48,633 –> 00:40:49,633kalen: approach, too,

70300:40:51,693 –> 00:40:55,373kalen: so I don’t know, man I, I, I don’t have any answers.

70400:40:53,840 –> 00:40:58,160brent_peterson: Well, let’s let’s talk about this right. I’ve seen more more now about

70500:40:58,480 –> 00:41:00,640brent_peterson: people saying this is splintering our community.

70600:41:01,853 –> 00:41:03,133kalen: Okay, right, right,

70700:41:02,480 –> 00:41:05,600brent_peterson: How many times have we heard that in the last ten years

70800:41:06,233 –> 00:41:07,23370900:41:07,220 –> 00:41:08,22071000:41:07,393 –> 00:41:08,39371100:41:07,920 –> 00:41:09,360brent_peterson: this is splintering our community?

71200:41:10,413 –> 00:41:13,453kalen: I don’t know. what are you? actually? What are you thinking? What? What other things

71300:41:13,533 –> 00:41:16,893kalen: are you thinking about that We’ described as splintering.

71400:41:15,440 –> 00:41:19,200brent_peterson: We’ve heard that over and over again. That, though community is breaking up,

71500:41:19,360 –> 00:41:24,000brent_peterson: and this is the end and I think, remember Um in twenty fourteen at Meetmch

71600:41:24,220 –> 00:41:25,220brent_peterson: into New York, Um,

71700:41:26,320 –> 00:41:28,800brent_peterson: curt, uh, Curt from Classi Lama,

71800:41:27,373 –> 00:41:31,693kalen: Oh, there’s no nucleus or there’s no center of gravity right,

71900:41:30,880 –> 00:41:34,720brent_peterson: Right, he had that big speech and Karen Baker did the same thing about how

72000:41:34,880 –> 00:41:37,920brent_peterson: our community’s falling apart And uh, you know, I

72100:41:37,553 –> 00:41:38,55372200:41:38,000 –> 00:41:42,080brent_peterson: think those are the times where Um where maybe it is splintering and and

72300:41:42,240 –> 00:41:47,200brent_peterson: having those people stand up and talk about it brings us together again.

72400:41:49,100 –> 00:41:50,100brent_peterson: So but is it

72500:41:49,713 –> 00:41:50,71372600:41:50,160 –> 00:41:53,520brent_peterson: splintering is? Yes, of course, it’s always splintering. People are going

72700:41:53,680 –> 00:41:55,680brent_peterson: off in their own directions and so

72800:41:55,533 –> 00:41:56,813kalen: it’s been. It’s

72900:41:56,620 –> 00:41:57,620brent_peterson: let me

73000:41:56,973 –> 00:42:00,013kalen: been in a process of continual splintering forw

73100:42:01,840 –> 00:42:05,680brent_peterson: know, But really like what? What is it that you’re saying? If it splintering

73200:42:05,840 –> 00:42:07,280brent_peterson: and where would you like it to go?

73300:42:08,400 –> 00:42:09,600brent_peterson: Because we just talked about

73400:42:10,720 –> 00:42:15,840brent_peterson: the the collective wants to be this community right. But the people like

73500:42:16,000 –> 00:42:20,400brent_peterson: William are pushing the boundaries to make something happen and we all agree

73600:42:20,640 –> 00:42:25,280brent_peterson: what he was doing is good, but other people are saying that we should. we

73700:42:25,440 –> 00:42:28,720brent_peterson: should split Ma Geno into small pieces. Some people

73800:42:28,273 –> 00:42:29,273kalen: right right

73900:42:29,040 –> 00:42:33,520brent_peterson: agree with that, some people don’t. That’s splintering the community, right,

74000:42:33,393 –> 00:42:34,393kalen: right, right,

74100:42:33,760 –> 00:42:38,080brent_peterson: everybody’. not going to have the exact same opinion about everything. So

74200:42:37,713 –> 00:42:38,71374300:42:38,240 –> 00:42:40,320brent_peterson: what does splintering the mean?

74400:42:43,053 –> 00:42:44,333kalen: Yeah, I think

74500:42:45,773 –> 00:42:49,933kalen: I go back to Larriville, because I’m Ca. I, That’s the other the closest analogue I

74600:42:50,013 –> 00:42:56,173kalen: have. You’ve got one leader, Taylor Otwell, who is incredible. He, every year he

74700:42:56,333 –> 00:43:02,733kalen: reads the entire code base line by line. That’s how committed this dut is. Everybody

74800:43:03,213 –> 00:43:07,133kalen: respects them as the like. A Lot of open source projects need to have a leader, right

74900:43:07,293 –> 00:43:13,533kalen: a B d f, â–l and Um. Lius Torvalts. Right. You think of these people and

75000:43:14,893 –> 00:43:19,693kalen: Um, or or companies need a founder. You know, you know you have a founder that’s led

75100:43:19,853 –> 00:43:27,373kalen: the company from day one and I, I feel like that is is kind of an important thing. We

75200:43:27,453 –> 00:43:32,173kalen: don’t have that right now. Um, although I think maybe that’s Willm, That’s my

75300:43:32,253 –> 00:43:34,653kalen: campaign, William for B. D f. â–l, but

75400:43:37,313 –> 00:43:38,313kalen: I don’t know. I mean

75500:43:39,293 –> 00:43:44,253kalen: yeah, I mean yes, Th. this would. This could splinter things. I guess

75600:43:45,693 –> 00:43:47,693kalen: um, I, I think organically.

75700:43:48,813 –> 00:43:54,573kalen: if if it was successful, it would start to pick up steam. And then maybe people that

75800:43:54,733 –> 00:43:59,133kalen: were not as interested in it would start to find a use case for it right.

75900:44:01,133 –> 00:44:06,093kalen: I mean, what about commerce and open source? Is that a splintering? is that A? Is

76000:44:06,173 –> 00:44:07,533kalen: that a splintering of the community?

76100:44:08,653 –> 00:44:09,773kalen: You know. I mean you. re.

76200:44:09,600 –> 00:44:12,640brent_peterson: I mean a commerce and open source is just a name. and that’s been around

76300:44:12,500 –> 00:44:13,50076400:44:15,280 –> 00:44:16,880brent_peterson: Enterprise came out in twenty ten

76500:44:17,633 –> 00:44:18,63376600:44:18,560 –> 00:44:24,080brent_peterson: and know the reality is thato has to make money so they have to pay. They

76700:44:24,140 –> 00:44:25,140brent_peterson: have to pay the bills,

76800:44:25,933 –> 00:44:29,053kalen: Yeah, money is good. Money’s money is important.

76900:44:31,073 –> 00:44:32,07377000:44:32,513 –> 00:44:33,51377100:44:34,173 –> 00:44:39,133kalen: I guess I. I think the point you raise is is interesting to me. Is like everybody’s

77200:44:39,293 –> 00:44:41,693kalen: always saying that everything is splintering the the community

77300:44:43,053 –> 00:44:48,333kalen: and the argument the association is making is listen, guys. We have been working for

77400:44:48,413 –> 00:44:53,293kalen: three years now to create this association to put some structure in place to foster

77500:44:53,533 –> 00:44:59,213kalen: dialogues and you guys are trying to blow it all up and you guys are saying Oh, we’re

77600:44:59,293 –> 00:45:04,413kalen: just going to do our own thing, And they’re saying we want you to work with us right

77700:45:04,733 –> 00:45:10,013kalen: as the association to communicate these things in a in a clear way to Adobe.

77800:45:11,453 –> 00:45:18,173kalen: And and I feel, and like I get that. But the same time it’s like

77900:45:19,293 –> 00:45:22,013kalen: there’s so much pent up frustration

78000:45:23,453 –> 00:45:27,613kalen: and ankt in the community And it’s just like

78100:45:28,973 –> 00:45:35,133kalen: it’s sort of spontaneously combusting. I feel like. In some ways you know

78200:45:34,720 –> 00:45:35,840brent_peterson: But doesn’t it feel like

78300:45:36,940 –> 00:45:37,940brent_peterson: that’s what happening

78400:45:38,960 –> 00:45:40,160brent_peterson: every time this happens.

78500:45:42,173 –> 00:45:44,333kalen: what do you mean? What do you

78600:45:43,280 –> 00:45:46,880brent_peterson: I mean it feels like the things are falling apart when this

78700:45:46,513 –> 00:45:47,51378800:45:46,740 –> 00:45:47,74078900:45:48,400 –> 00:45:52,080brent_peterson: When it felt like when Um Ebay bought Mago,

79000:45:53,760 –> 00:45:59,760brent_peterson: they had that â–x Commerce conference and then the next year it wasn’t I to a

79100:45:59,840 –> 00:46:04,800brent_peterson: man conference. It was just imagine. like Magento came out of it completely

79200:46:05,180 –> 00:46:06,180brent_peterson: right. Like

79300:46:05,873 –> 00:46:06,873kalen: right? right, right, right,

79400:46:06,560 –> 00:46:12,560brent_peterson: for you know, Magenta was removed completely from the verbage in in those in

79500:46:12,480 –> 00:46:14,320brent_peterson: in the conversation. Um,

79600:46:15,680 –> 00:46:19,200brent_peterson: it felt like it. it. That was worse than it is now.

79700:46:20,240 –> 00:46:22,560brent_peterson: In some sense, because it felt

79800:46:22,193 –> 00:46:23,193kalen: right, right,

79900:46:22,720 –> 00:46:28,000brent_peterson: like it was getting sucked into some beheemth like Ebay, and and we’re never

80000:46:27,940 –> 00:46:28,940brent_peterson: going to get it back.

80100:46:30,413 –> 00:46:36,973kalen: I think that the corporate overlords, they keep trying to sort of absorb Mago. and

80200:46:37,053 –> 00:46:39,613kalen: then it just doesn’t just can’t happen.

80300:46:41,133 –> 00:46:47,133kalen: Like, like I said man, the community is rebellious. We’d like to do our own thing. We

80400:46:47,213 –> 00:46:54,013kalen: have our own hive mind. You know we’re going to keep fighting. You know, we’re go to

80500:46:54,173 –> 00:46:58,333kalen: keep. We’re going to keep forking. You know, it’s going to keep aing

80600:46:59,120 –> 00:47:01,040brent_peterson: Yep, uh, you know. think about um.

80700:47:02,160 –> 00:47:06,240brent_peterson: think about you. Think about these business leaders that are making these

80800:47:06,480 –> 00:47:11,600brent_peterson: decisions that don’t give uh, rats. Whatever about Magento. They bought

80900:47:11,760 –> 00:47:14,960brent_peterson: Magento in in the sense that they needed, and they wanted a commerce

81000:47:15,200 –> 00:47:20,000brent_peterson: platform to to go into the Um, broader Uh portfolio for a doobe,

81100:47:20,433 –> 00:47:21,43381200:47:20,960 –> 00:47:24,640brent_peterson: Uh, and what? they could have chose some other platform. That’s a Sass

81300:47:24,800 –> 00:47:28,000brent_peterson: platform. They could have chose something like Big commerce or whatever is

81400:47:28,160 –> 00:47:33,680brent_peterson: out there. They chose a Ma genento and it’s a Ph P platform. I don’t. I’m

81500:47:33,840 –> 00:47:38,400brent_peterson: just, I’m just putting out my guesses here. I’m guessing they didn’t think

81600:47:38,640 –> 00:47:42,800brent_peterson: about. Hey, this is Ph P. and none of the other products on a doob or Ph. H.

81700:47:42,500 –> 00:47:43,50081800:47:44,080 –> 00:47:47,520brent_peterson: Right they? they didn’t think of any that. I’m sure they looked at a bunch

81900:47:47,460 –> 00:47:48,460brent_peterson: of factors

82000:47:48,673 –> 00:47:49,67382100:47:49,120 –> 00:47:53,840brent_peterson: that made it F. from a business standpoint Make made it make sense.

82200:47:55,840 –> 00:47:59,360brent_peterson: And then the next thing after that you have a whole bunch of managers that

82300:47:59,440 –> 00:48:01,360brent_peterson: make decision. Ions that again,

82400:48:02,480 –> 00:48:05,840brent_peterson: don’t necessarily a line with where Magento was.

82500:48:07,200 –> 00:48:10,400brent_peterson: They just are looking at where they would like it to be,

82600:48:11,520 –> 00:48:17,200brent_peterson: not necessarily thinking about how it got there and how it’s going to get

82700:48:17,440 –> 00:48:22,240brent_peterson: maintained. in terms of hey, you know we have three hundred thousand people

82800:48:22,400 –> 00:48:27,600brent_peterson: that care about it. Um, are we going to upset them if we start doing this or

82900:48:27,680 –> 00:48:30,800brent_peterson: are we going? Are they going to feel shut out when we stop talking

83000:48:30,740 –> 00:48:31,74083100:48:32,433 –> 00:48:33,43383200:48:34,273 –> 00:48:35,27383300:48:34,500 –> 00:48:35,50083400:48:34,893 –> 00:48:37,053kalen: do you mean when we stoped talking altogether,

83500:48:37,440 –> 00:48:41,360brent_peterson: well, you know, if if we look at this as being a communications problem and

83600:48:41,440 –> 00:48:44,640brent_peterson: the communication is just there, not telling us what’s going to be happening

83700:48:44,800 –> 00:48:49,840brent_peterson: in the future with Magento, they are there really in. in a sense, not really

83800:48:49,820 –> 00:48:50,820brent_peterson: telling us

83900:48:51,680 –> 00:48:56,400brent_peterson: where they where where it’s going right. We don’t know necessarily where

84000:48:56,180 –> 00:48:57,180brent_peterson: it’s going.

84100:48:57,153 –> 00:48:58,153kalen: Mhm, Mhm,

84200:48:57,940 –> 00:48:58,94084300:49:00,320 –> 00:49:04,960brent_peterson: and that is, uh, a concern that the community has, because they would like

84400:49:05,200 –> 00:49:07,440brent_peterson: people would like to know where it’s going,

84500:49:07,953 –> 00:49:08,95384600:49:08,480 –> 00:49:13,520brent_peterson: and even more than I, I think few people want to be included in that they

84700:49:13,600 –> 00:49:16,400brent_peterson: want to feel that. if it’s a community you want to feel like you’re included

84800:49:16,220 –> 00:49:17,220brent_peterson: in the community

84900:49:18,560 –> 00:49:22,640brent_peterson: And if you don’t know what’s happening and the decisions are being made and

85000:49:21,473 –> 00:49:22,473kalen: yeah, Mhm,

85100:49:23,120 –> 00:49:25,120brent_peterson: you don’t even know what’s going to be happening

85200:49:25,633 –> 00:49:26,63385300:49:26,080 –> 00:49:29,360brent_peterson: that you feel incredibly left out of the community.

85400:49:26,080 –> 00:49:29,360brent_peterson: that you feel incredibly left out of the community.

85500:49:33,213 –> 00:49:38,173kalen: yeah, yeah, I think that’ I think that maybe it that may be the issue at hand.

85600:49:40,173 –> 00:49:41,933kalen: I don’t know. I just missed pen mark,

85700:49:42,673 –> 00:49:43,673kalen: you know,

85800:49:43,360 –> 00:49:44,640brent_peterson: Well, we can do our Ne

85900:49:44,313 –> 00:49:45,313kalen: I think.

86000:49:44,880 –> 00:49:46,480brent_peterson: next episode on shopware.

86100:49:47,233 –> 00:49:48,23386200:49:48,813 –> 00:49:52,973kalen: I don’t know the first thing about shopper, other than I think it’s the next Magento,

86300:49:53,980 –> 00:49:54,98086400:49:54,273 –> 00:49:55,273kalen: but um,

86500:49:56,173 –> 00:49:59,533kalen: they seem to have some strong grass roots growth.

86600:50:00,100 –> 00:50:01,100brent_peterson: as long as you get

86700:50:00,353 –> 00:50:01,35386800:50:00,960 –> 00:50:03,920brent_peterson: the Germans involved and then the Dutch, the Dutch, and

86900:50:03,673 –> 00:50:04,673kalen: you won’t.

87000:50:04,000 –> 00:50:06,000brent_peterson: the Germans, that’s all we need.

87100:50:05,533 –> 00:50:10,333kalen: That’s a P. That’s a powerhouse Con. Are the Dutch getting into shopware? Is that is

87200:50:10,320 –> 00:50:13,120brent_peterson: I’m sure they are. look at all the people on hoofah and

87300:50:10,353 –> 00:50:11,353kalen: that starting to?

87400:50:14,160 –> 00:50:15,600brent_peterson: going to be in shop. Definitely,

87500:50:15,933 –> 00:50:18,573kalen: Oh? are Oh, Are they going to be in shopware? Is that happening?

87600:50:19,360 –> 00:50:21,600brent_peterson: I’m just speculating making stuff up

87700:50:22,553 –> 00:50:23,553kalen: Okay? Yeah, no,

87800:50:23,500 –> 00:50:24,500brent_peterson: fake news.

87900:50:23,693 –> 00:50:26,413kalen: it’s uh, vague news, vague news.

88000:50:27,453 –> 00:50:32,573kalen: Yeah, no, it’s its. Yeah, it’s crazy, but yes, I do. I just miss Ben. That’s all I

88100:50:32,733 –> 00:50:36,653kalen: wanted to say. That’s really. That’s really all there is to say. At this point

88200:50:37,280 –> 00:50:38,560brent_peterson: Well, why don’t we have a

88300:50:37,853 –> 00:50:40,013kalen: we need you, Ben. come back to us.

88400:50:40,540 –> 00:50:41,540brent_peterson: let’s do?

88500:50:40,893 –> 00:50:46,653kalen: What have you done? You’ve left us orphaned like orphan children in our time of need

88600:50:47,853 –> 00:50:49,133kalen: and we need you back here.

88700:50:48,080 –> 00:50:50,880brent_peterson: Why don’t we do? Let’s do an interview with Ben.

88800:50:52,033 –> 00:50:53,033kalen: It’s a great idea.

88900:50:54,753 –> 00:50:55,753kalen: No, I, just

89000:50:55,120 –> 00:50:58,800brent_peterson: drink and die Coke. Is that of whole thing fe a di cokee going there?

89100:50:59,293 –> 00:51:00,973kalen: this is rum. but

89200:51:01,120 –> 00:51:03,440brent_peterson: Okay? that’s a big thing. A rum’s nice.

89300:51:01,293 –> 00:51:06,173kalen: uh yeah know do yeah know, because diyke. No diycoke isn’t very good for you, so

89400:51:06,700 –> 00:51:07,700brent_peterson: Okay, so you just

89500:51:07,233 –> 00:51:08,23389600:51:07,840 –> 00:51:10,400brent_peterson: do a die coke and rum. Leave out the died coke.

89700:51:12,193 –> 00:51:13,193kalen: more or less

89800:51:13,553 –> 00:51:14,55389900:51:14,320 –> 00:51:16,880brent_peterson: No ice. Just dump the rum in.

90000:51:15,453 –> 00:51:19,933kalen: I, actually, there’s actually ton e ice. I’m surprised you can’t hear all the ice in

90100:51:20,013 –> 00:51:21,613kalen: here. There’s quite a bit of ice.

90200:51:20,560 –> 00:51:23,360brent_peterson: No, your microphone is very good. pointed right at your mouth.

90300:51:22,973 –> 00:51:24,893kalen: Oh, that is good. Um.

90400:51:26,333 –> 00:51:30,173kalen: I, I would love to talk to Mann. I thought about that a lot. I just feel like

90500:51:31,693 –> 00:51:35,853kalen: he. prob. you know he probably can’t talk much of. See that it goes back to the same

90600:51:36,013 –> 00:51:40,973kalen: thing. I opened up our conversation with I. He probably can’t talk about much. you

90700:51:41,053 –> 00:51:46,333kalen: know, I’d imagine he probably doesn’t want to go rant about every internal problem

90800:51:46,653 –> 00:51:49,853kalen: There was. You know. He’s left Magento,

90900:51:50,713 –> 00:51:51,713kalen: so like

91000:51:52,893 –> 00:51:58,413kalen: I would love nothing more than to pick his brain for five hours straight, but I can’t

91100:51:58,573 –> 00:52:03,693kalen: imagine he wants to talk about that stuff publicly. you know, maybe privately, and

91200:52:03,773 –> 00:52:06,653kalen: then I’ll just record it on the download and publish it.

91300:52:06,180 –> 00:52:07,180brent_peterson: Yeah, Mhm.

91400:52:06,740 –> 00:52:07,74091500:52:07,073 –> 00:52:08,073kalen: You know.

91600:52:07,440 –> 00:52:12,400brent_peterson: you stick your your your of your phone on record in your pocket, so it’ll

91700:52:12,340 –> 00:52:13,340brent_peterson: just be her

91800:52:14,020 –> 00:52:15,02091900:52:15,033 –> 00:52:16,03392000:52:16,220 –> 00:52:17,220brent_peterson: You said

92100:52:16,833 –> 00:52:17,833kalen: that’s the ticket.

92200:52:17,120 –> 00:52:21,440brent_peterson: what I’ve heard of her. Oh, my gosh, I can’t believe that, Ben.

92300:52:25,760 –> 00:52:26,960brent_peterson: Really, that really happened.

92400:52:28,240 –> 00:52:31,760brent_peterson: See, there you go. I. I, we could do the interview ourselves and E, we

92500:52:31,313 –> 00:52:32,31392600:52:31,740 –> 00:52:32,740brent_peterson: could just pretend

92700:52:33,613 –> 00:52:38,653kalen: Yeah, that’s it there. That’s the other option. We could just do a mock interview.

92800:52:38,893 –> 00:52:42,733kalen: You, you be badd Mark, so be, you do an amazing muffle. The benmarks,

92900:52:42,580 –> 00:52:43,58093000:52:42,973 –> 00:52:44,573kalen: I will say, and

93100:52:44,640 –> 00:52:46,880brent_peterson: Absolutely lots of practice.

93200:52:44,893 –> 00:52:48,493kalen: um, and I’ll be me, You know. Yeah,

93300:52:49,773 –> 00:52:52,973kalen: um, and we could probably do a pretty, a pretty solid job.

93400:52:54,500 –> 00:52:55,50093500:52:56,033 –> 00:52:57,03393600:52:58,413 –> 00:53:01,213kalen: well, I think we’ve solved everything personally. I

93700:53:01,260 –> 00:53:02,260brent_peterson: yeah, we’ve burnt.

93800:53:01,293 –> 00:53:02,333kalen: mean, all they need to do,

93900:53:03,433 –> 00:53:04,433kalen: you know is

94000:53:03,600 –> 00:53:06,080brent_peterson: We’ve burned through fifty three minutes of solving.

94100:53:03,600 –> 00:53:06,080brent_peterson: We’ve burned through fifty three minutes of solving.

94200:53:07,533 –> 00:53:10,173kalen: all they need to do is hit play on this bad boy

94300:53:11,293 –> 00:53:17,293kalen: and listen to everything we say, Do everything we say and it’s all solved. You know.

94400:53:17,473 –> 00:53:18,473kalen: it’s done

94500:53:17,660 –> 00:53:18,66094600:53:19,520 –> 00:53:22,400brent_peterson: Um, Chantinus were sending it to right.

94700:53:23,933 –> 00:53:28,733kalen: a hundred percent. Yeah, we’re going to hand deliver this to him on his doorstep in a

94800:53:28,893 –> 00:53:30,493kalen: in a thumb in a thumb drive.

94900:53:31,180 –> 00:53:32,180brent_peterson: Yeah, yeah,

95000:53:33,120 –> 00:53:37,360brent_peterson: um, I heard that Laravell was named after a guy named Larry Vll.

95100:53:39,380 –> 00:53:40,380brent_peterson: Did you hear that

95200:53:43,533 –> 00:53:45,293kalen: I, I did not.

95300:53:46,240 –> 00:53:48,720brent_peterson: Uh v e I, â–l,

95400:53:50,300 –> 00:53:51,300brent_peterson: and Um,

95500:53:52,160 –> 00:53:56,800brent_peterson: if it would, it would have been Larry Vile, like Vale, Colorado, otherwise,

95600:53:56,500 –> 00:53:57,50095700:53:56,673 –> 00:53:57,67395800:53:57,120 –> 00:53:59,200brent_peterson: now it’s Larry Vlle, and they just shortened it.

95900:54:01,120 –> 00:54:02,480brent_peterson: Did you hear that same rumor

96000:54:04,080 –> 00:54:06,560brent_peterson: like his neighbor’s name was Larry Vlle.

96100:54:08,413 –> 00:54:10,653kalen: please tell serious. Are you serious?

96200:54:11,060 –> 00:54:12,06096300:54:14,013 –> 00:54:19,853kalen: How did you get me? I was like the very last minute I was like, Oh my God, he’s

96400:54:19,633 –> 00:54:20,63396500:54:20,960 –> 00:54:23,920brent_peterson: Yeah, we made through this whole episode without any jokes.

96600:54:23,433 –> 00:54:24,433kalen: Oh God,

96700:54:24,700 –> 00:54:25,700brent_peterson: and Um,

96800:54:24,973 –> 00:54:26,253kalen: you are literally

96900:54:27,313 –> 00:54:28,313kalen: the most

97000:54:28,953 –> 00:54:29,953kalen: dead pan

97100:54:31,453 –> 00:54:34,013kalen: dad joker on the planet.

97200:54:34,500 –> 00:54:35,500brent_peterson: I’ve been told that,

97300:54:37,293 –> 00:54:40,973kalen: Just when I think I have you figured out, you throw me for a loop. you know,

97400:54:40,820 –> 00:54:41,82097500:54:42,640 –> 00:54:47,280brent_peterson: uh, speaking of, Uh, of well, so coup a couple of things as we close out.

97600:54:47,600 –> 00:54:52,960brent_peterson: Um, If if Willilm is our eelon musk, it is going to be infinitely less

97700:54:53,200 –> 00:54:58,960brent_peterson: expensive for him to shoot the Hofa theme into space than it was for Elo to

97800:54:59,040 –> 00:55:01,440brent_peterson: shoot his first tessin to space, right,

97900:55:01,393 –> 00:55:02,39398000:55:03,213 –> 00:55:04,333kalen: um, yes,

98100:55:03,520 –> 00:55:05,920brent_peterson: Um, he only has to strap on

98200:55:06,960 –> 00:55:11,040brent_peterson: a. You know you, I guess you would probably wanted to put it on a thumb

98300:55:11,200 –> 00:55:14,800brent_peterson: drive of some sort, the code and then shoot it up and we could even shoot

98400:55:14,353 –> 00:55:15,35398500:55:14,960 –> 00:55:18,400brent_peterson: it up on a small rocket. It doesn’t have to be a regular rocket.

98600:55:18,893 –> 00:55:25,613kalen: well, yes, that said, I’m pretty sure. any kind of rocket, even one that’s only big

98700:55:25,853 –> 00:55:28,493kalen: enough to carry a thumb drive is is not cheap.

98800:55:29,140 –> 00:55:30,140brent_peterson: Yeah, all right,

98900:55:29,873 –> 00:55:30,873kalen: you know,

99000:55:30,720 –> 00:55:34,240brent_peterson: so somebody’s going to have to fund that for Willm, so we could

99100:55:34,113 –> 00:55:35,113kalen: hundred percent.

99200:55:34,320 –> 00:55:35,520brent_peterson: do a go fun Me page

99300:55:36,333 –> 00:55:37,453kalen: we’ll get that linked up.

99400:55:36,480 –> 00:55:40,960brent_peterson: or we could just see if we could get it in Uh, on one of the Uh, one of Elon

99500:55:41,120 –> 00:55:44,800brent_peterson: Musk’s Um space, â–x rockets. That would be cheaper

99600:55:44,093 –> 00:55:49,373kalen: Let’s do that. I’ll I’ll have a chat with him next time I see him down at the comedy

99700:55:48,800 –> 00:55:52,400brent_peterson: then I do. I do have a Tesla joke for you as we close it out.

99800:55:49,513 –> 00:55:50,513kalen: club here in Austin.

99900:55:52,713 –> 00:55:53,713kalen: Good lord,

100000:55:53,520 –> 00:55:54,560brent_peterson: Uh, I just

100100:55:54,553 –> 00:55:55,553kalen: somebody. somebody save me.

100200:55:54,880 –> 00:55:58,640brent_peterson: figure out. I just figured out why Teslas are so expensive

100300:55:59,073 –> 00:56:00,073100400:56:00,480 –> 00:56:01,680brent_peterson: because they charge a lot.

100500:56:04,980 –> 00:56:05,980brent_peterson: You’re welcome.

100600:56:05,693 –> 00:56:07,773kalen: Oh God, thank you. Did you

100700:56:07,420 –> 00:56:08,420100800:56:07,853 –> 00:56:09,613kalen: do that as you come up with that one yourself.

100900:56:09,760 –> 00:56:12,640brent_peterson: I don’t come up with any of my jokes myself. No,

101000:56:11,213 –> 00:56:14,973kalen: You don’t come up with any of them, but you deliver them like an absolute champion.

101100:56:15,280 –> 00:56:18,400brent_peterson: yeah, that’s the only that I don’t even know if that’s my talent.

101200:56:18,913 –> 00:56:19,913101300:56:19,460 –> 00:56:20,460brent_peterson: I don’t think it is.

101400:56:20,653 –> 00:56:23,053kalen: I, no, I wouldn’t â–quit your day job.

101500:56:22,160 –> 00:56:26,880brent_peterson: I do come up with spontaneous jokes. Uh, and I do have to explain them. I

101600:56:26,960 –> 00:56:28,160brent_peterson: think that’s the best part of it,

101700:56:30,893 –> 00:56:33,453kalen: It is the best part, ladies and ja.

101800:56:32,240 –> 00:56:34,560brent_peterson: my, my best joke, my best joke.

101900:56:34,113 –> 00:56:35,113102000:56:34,800 –> 00:56:37,440brent_peterson: When I’m running, I know we’re over now, but uh, I

102100:56:37,453 –> 00:56:39,053kalen: no, no, no, we have all the time in the world

102200:56:37,520 –> 00:56:42,960brent_peterson: do. I do my long runs. Um, and oftenims we outut with, I’m with the new Sam

102300:56:43,120 –> 00:56:45,920brent_peterson: Muth, a new group of people and we’re doing twenty miles or something like

102400:56:45,540 –> 00:56:46,540102500:56:46,193 –> 00:56:47,193102600:56:47,520 –> 00:56:54,880brent_peterson: I wait until Mile eighteen and I, My advice is always running is always

102700:56:55,600 –> 00:56:59,440brent_peterson: running. Is is is, uh, ninety percent mental

102800:57:00,033 –> 00:57:01,033102900:57:00,480 –> 00:57:05,120brent_peterson: and the last fifteen percent is in your head, and I leave it at that and we

103000:57:05,280 –> 00:57:07,360brent_peterson: just keep going. And then if they’re

103100:57:07,273 –> 00:57:08,273kalen: I love it

103200:57:07,440 –> 00:57:12,480brent_peterson: paying attention at all what I say, they will question my math, but a lot of

103300:57:07,440 –> 00:57:12,480brent_peterson: paying attention at all what I say, they will question my math, but a lot of

103400:57:12,560 –> 00:57:15,520brent_peterson: times they’re not, They’re not at the point where they could think straight,

103500:57:12,560 –> 00:57:15,520brent_peterson: times they’re not, They’re not at the point where they could think straight,

103600:57:15,380 –> 00:57:16,380103700:57:15,380 –> 00:57:16,380103800:57:15,693 –> 00:57:17,933kalen: they don’t. They don’t catch it, kind of like I didn’t

103900:57:17,580 –> 00:57:18,580104000:57:18,093 –> 00:57:21,773kalen: catch your my sequel joke. They just kind of go like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

104100:57:21,553 –> 00:57:22,553kalen: that’s good.

104200:57:21,940 –> 00:57:22,940104300:57:22,333 –> 00:57:23,613kalen: That’s good. Good inspiration.

104400:57:23,860 –> 00:57:24,860104500:57:25,053 –> 00:57:29,453kalen: I love it. I love it, ladies and gentlemen, Brant Peterson, All done here, were

104600:57:29,613 –> 00:57:30,973kalen: wrapping it up over and out.

104700:57:31,540 –> 00:57:32,540

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